Curse

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

How about having a downloadable patch for updates available through the web?

Pros:
- Mirrors can provide the patches
- Save the patches as backup (if you uninstall/reinstall GW)
- Provide the patch to a 56k buddy
- Ensure everyone's gw.dat file is minimized (no more 5gb to 8gb .dat files)
- Faster than downloading from the server

Cons:
- May cause security issues
- Potential abuse

Just an idea to toss around.

Kong · Dec 09, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Never going to happen.

Antheus · Dec 09, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

The pros confuse me... It's still the same download, so what changes if you use web browser instead of GW client?

Everything listed under pros can currently be done, and is exactly how it works.

And the speed argument is rather irrelevant, since updating incrementally completely removes this issue.

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

- Mirrors can provide the patches
Takes loads off of the GW server... when everyone is trying to ownload the latest content at the same time? (new expansion BETA or something similar)

- Save the patches as backup (if you uninstall/reinstall GW)
I think that one is self explanatory... you don't have to backup your whole .dat file but instead have a more compact setup file.

- Provide the patch to a 56k buddy
Or even to someone on your network. So X people don't have to download the same files at the same time.. just one person download it and provide to the whole network at way higher speeds.

- Ensure everyone's gw.dat file is minimized (no more 5gb to 8gb .dat files)
Some people still have huge .dat files... so the patch(maybe) can prune some unused stuff?

- Faster than downloading from the server
If you have a network or a private server for a select group of people...

Loviatar · Dec 09, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

THIS PATCH FIXES MY FAVORITE EXPLOIT SO I WONT USE IT.

GET IT?

no way

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

What are you talking about?
If you don't use the patch and proceed to run the game then you will have to download the updates... I am not saying to eliminate updates but I am suggesting to create an alternative way to get the updates (via patch).
Hand off shift key helps.

Deleet · Dec 09, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Horrible idea, you're basically downgrading the current system.

Series · Dec 09, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Not to be rude but this is probably the worst idea I have ever heard for Guild Wars. Get rid of the user friendly patch system that does ALL the work for you so that we can go do all the patching ourselves? Surfing the web for mirrors that work and dont give you spyware, searching for mirrors that DON'T have a wait time of 3 hours. Did you ever uninstall/reinstall guild wars? The first time you play, all the updates are put back instantly. If you reinstalled with the updates on your PC, you would have to go through them ONE BY ONE in order to play again... with the countless updates, this would take FOREVER! The current system for that occasion works perfect. You have 56k buddies? So THAT'S why it was so laggy in Kaineg the other day. Dat file minimized? If you have to download all the patches which are APPLIED to your dat file, the dat file wont change at all. And faster than downloading from the server? Have you ever played- no, SEEN- a game where you download patches from mirrors?

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Why does everyone think its downgrading? This suggestion is an add-on
ADD-ON
@Series:In actual fact your post was rude and a sentence at the beginning doesn't make it go away.

Diablo 2 puts its patches on fileplanet, fileshack, and ausgamers along with their ftp site.
A patch can consist of multiple updates in one. Lets say if your at a friend's house and don't want to waste time downloading all of the updates then you can download the compressed patch files (before hand) then bring it over to his/her place and install GW there. Saves time no?

Malice Black · Dec 09, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Won't happen..56k people will either have to cough up some cash or deal with load times.

Besides 56k users with BB/cable friends who would this actually benefit?

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

This is not in the rude manner as it may sound like :S :

-People on the same network
-Some friend lending a CD with all the latest patches
-People who wish to 'backup' GW incase of reformatting/data loss so they don't have to download all of the updates again
-During the 'new expansion pack' rush where everyone is trying to download all the content at the same time (making downloading slow) the load can be lessened by a patch file for download at 2-3 other sites.

Series · Dec 09, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

This is not in the rude manner as it may sound like :S :

-People on the same network
-Some friend lending a CD with all the latest patches
-People who wish to 'backup' GW incase of reformatting/data loss so they don't have to download all of the updates again
-During the 'new expansion pack' rush where everyone is trying to download all the content at the same time (making downloading slow) the load can be lessened by a patch file for download at 2-3 other sites.

Syndren, I really want to know if you EVER tried any of the things you are talking about (installing on a friends computer, reinstalling, etc.). It is a LOT easier than you think it is. Diablo 2 used mirror sites because... it's an old game! Technology improves my friend! The only reason people would need this is if they had dial up and a friend downloaded it for them and installed it on their computer for them... but unless your friend is your neighbor, this will take MORE time then the current method!

-People on the same network? I don't understand how this would help.
-Why would you want that when you can download instantly for the same amount of time?
-When you install Guild Wars, it automatically installs the updates.
-So then, instead of the download taking 3 minutes via automatic updates, it will take 8 hours because of crappy mirrors. Great solution to a nonexistent problem!

The fact is, this saves no time, no hard drive space, and can only benefit you if you are one of the EXTREMELY few people who uses dial up and has a neighbor with high speed who plays Guild Wars who is willing to burn the updates to a CD every time a new one is released. Either way, Anet would never bother to implement this as you know, so it doesn't really matter.

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Have you ever played- no, SEEN- a game where you download patches from mirrors?

I answered your question with a fair answer I don't think the reply:

Quote:

Diablo 2 used mirror sites because... it's an old game!

Can just pish pash my reply away :P.

Yes I have uninstalled and reinstalled stuff before but lets think about this... you install GW from the game cd so now how long do you have to wait to download all the updates from your 'vanilla' version? Maybe 20mins - 2hours (if your slow). If you prepare a patch version before hand then you install the game via CD then apply the patch which should take only a few minutes. Then you will be ready to jump right in.

People on the network: "Here take the patch at 100mb/s"

If you have 5 people on the same internet connection downloading X files at the exact same time wouldn't it be slower than 1 person downloading that file then sharing it to the network at 100mb/s?

I think we can agree that a compressed patch file is smaller than the .dat file right?

So my conclusion is that it does save time, it does save HDD space, and it can benifit anyone wanting to make a backup to sharing patch files at a faster rate to friends.

3 minutes to download updates from a vanilla version is just not true.
and the 8 hours to download a patch and burn it on a cd is exaggerating....

I bring up this suggestion not because I have 56k friends (which I don't) but as an alternative means to download updates/backup/share. If you don't want to download patches thats fine, then just use the updates. If they implement this suggestion ANET is not forcing you to download the patches.

Before someone makes a comment about how they would force you remember this is an add-on suggestion. Its not tampering with the current updating system.

Series · Dec 09, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

I think we can agree that a compressed patch file is smaller than the .dat file right?

3 minutes to download updates from a vanilla version is just not true.
and the 8 hours to download a patch and burn it on a cd is exaggerating....

I'm replying to what I feel is still relevant:

Updates aren't downloaded in .dat format... I don't think you understand that whether you download an update OR use a patch, the content is added to the .dat file. If you take a compressed patch and move it into your program files, it isn't installed. It doesn't get installed until extract and install it, applying it to the game (making changes to the .dat file, for example). The downloads we get currently work EXACTLY the same way. So yes, a compressed patch is smaller, but this is irrelevant as the compressed patch does nothing until it is used to expand the game, in which case it takes up the same amount of space, technically more if you don't delete the compressed patch (since now you have it uncompressed AND compressed).

The 8 hours is not exaggerating. Seriously. I've seen people download patches for other games off of mirrors with dial up years ago and it would take up to 24 hours for a major update- heck, maybe even more. On a crowded server, the WAIT to download (servers reached capacity) can reach SEVERAL hours alone! I remember downloading patches off of mirrors years ago for other games and it was not a pleasant experience until after the initial crowd of people got it and are off the servers (days later). Imagine this in a game like Guild Wars where you NEED to get the update as soon as possible, not to mention GW has a ton of players. The mirrors would be completely unbearable... if you find a server that doesn't give a wait, the lag will be ridiculous.

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Yes I know how a patch works.

My argument (which I think you are missing) is that for the people who want to backup their files do not have to copy over a huge .dat file but instead just keep the patches. (Which then saves space).

And as I have mentioned earlier - this is an add-on. If you feel its too slow for you at that given moment then switch to the update system they already have. I don't see a problem, if its going too slow then just use the normal way of updating. If you find that the updating is slow (due to everyone trying to download it at the same time) then download a patch instead.

EDIT: ok maybe I should try to explain more clearly:
I would like to have the additional option to download the updates in the form of patches. This additional option would not remove the current updating system. This is an alternative method to download updates if you wish to.
Don't see anything wrong with that

skillsbas8 · Dec 09, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Too many abuse posibilities.

Series · Dec 09, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

My argument (which I think you are missing) is that for the people who want to backup their files do not have to copy over a huge .dat file but instead just keep the patches. (Which then saves space).

In that case... why not just compress the .dat file? It would take up more space, but if space is such a huge concern, that would make a bit of a difference. Also, since something can't really be double-compressed, it would basically be as if you had the compressed patches AND the compressed .dat file. Of course not exactly, but probably close enough.

-Loki- · Dec 09, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-People on the same network

Just let them leech your gw.dat file.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-Some friend lending a CD with all the latest patches

gw.dat won't fit on a cd, but it will fit on a DVD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-People who wish to 'backup' GW incase of reformatting/data loss so they don't have to download all of the updates again

Again, burn gw.dat to a DVD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-During the 'new expansion pack' rush where everyone is trying to download all the content at the same time (making downloading slow) the load can be lessened by a patch file for download at 2-3 other sites.

True enough, but the lag wasn't as bad at Nightfalls release as it was at Factions release, so Arenanet might be getting better at maintaining their datacenters.

Syndren · Dec 09, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

A little to lazy to do quotes so I'll just make some points:

-leeching a whole .dat file? Seems a little impractical to me. If you have GW build 20,000 (we are at 20,313) all you would have to do is download the relevant patch files.

-After every update you would have to reburn your whole .dat file? :P

-Again, every time there is an update you will have to burn (or copy over to an external HDD) your .dat file. having 1 CD with some patches then when a new build comes out burn another cd with the other newer patches seems to be more practical.

-Its true that Anet seems to be getting better at the updating but its not only for that reason why I suggested this.

-doubtful if compressing your .dat file is the same as a handful of compressed patches. Points being:
*you have a gw cd that contains most of the maps, textures, etc.
*patches would only contain the important fixes/add ons

-Loki- · Dec 09, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-leeching a whole .dat file? Seems a little impractical to me. If you have GW build 20,000 (we are at 20,313) all you would have to do is download the relevant patch files.

Not really. The .dat file is around 3gb. I leech that much data regularly at lans. Go have a beer while it's leeching if you are that impatient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-After every update you would have to reburn your whole .dat file? :P

Why after every update? They have an internet connection or they wouldn't be playing the game. After a huge update like SF or DoA, yeah, but the smaller updates, why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndren

-Again, every time there is an update you will have to burn (or copy over to an external HDD) your .dat file. having 1 CD with some patches then when a new build comes out burn another cd with the other newer patches seems to be more practical.

Not really, as above.